[00:00:15] Amy H-L: I’m Amy Halpern-Laff.
[00:00:17] Jon M: And I’m Jon Moscow. Our guests today are Dr. Kym Vanderbilt, Kelsey Nova, and Cyndhia Silvero. Kym is assistant professor in early childhood and childhood education at Lehman College of the City University of New York, as well as a board member of Ethical Schools. Kelsey and Cyndhia are experienced early childhood teachers and former students of Kym’s.
Welcome, Kym, Kelsey, and Cyndhia.
[00:00:40] Kym V: Thank you.
[00:00:40] Kelsey N: Thank you.
[00:00:41] Cyndhia S: Thank you so much.
[00:00:45] Amy H-L: Kym, you ask students in your teacher ed classes to write scenarios of ethically complex situations. What are your objectives in doing this?
[00:00:56] Kym V: Our objectives as a teacher education program in this last semester where students are doing their student teaching is to have students, one, see themselves as researchers in their own classroom, in their own profession.
At the same time, we’re asking them to consider some of the ethically challenging situations they’ve been in already. Many of our students who are teachers are experienced teachers. They’ve been assistant teachers, they’ve been lead teachers. So we draw upon their expertise in the field of understanding ethically complicated situations, and we then ask them to take multiple perspectives in considering these ethical dilemmas. Our hope is that by doing this, we are helping these students and teachers consider situations they may find themselves in, and be able to think more deeply about how one might go about considering ethically challenging situations.
[00:02:21] Jon M: Kelsey, could you tell us about the scenario you described when you did this in Kym’s class, and the ethical dilemma that it presented?
[00:02:33] Kelsey N: Yes. My ethical dilemma had to do with the variations of leadership within an organization and how that affects and trickles down to the educational aspects of not just children, but also teachers’ roles and how those roles and that experience and all of the experience and input that teachers can definitely support leadership with is not taken to account. And so how that can just dismantle an organization overall because sometimes leadership is only focused and knowledgeable of leadership, but not really of education, and how that can affect not just the children and their learning, but how it’s a, just a domino effect all around. And so yeah, most of that was with Mrs. Collins, a teacher, and the director, and of course, all the different parts and all the parties that play into and are affected by just leadership not having the right knowledge, the right experience to support, I would say, a school.
And so, a part of that is also, and what inspired me to focus on this thesis, and I talked about it with Professor Vanderbilt throughout the semester. And, she said, “Why don’t you put that down into a case study?” And I was like- “yes, we’re actually going through this. It’s also a first-hand experience.” But I also was able to incorporate the different parties and all of the insights of families, and administration, and the director, who’s pretty much the middle person in regards to trying to disseminate all the information to families and to teachers, and manage all parties, including their seniors, right, their leadership, board members, and all the parties involved in the way the organization runs. So I was able to definitely see it from all perspectives, not just an educator’s perspective, but the children’s perspective, the family’s perspective, who experience, their interactions with teachers and administration and their children, as well as the teachers with admin. So all the parties connectively, they definitely, there was a lot of overlap in terms of the types of communication and roles everyone plays within the organization. But without leadership, that guidance gets lost.
[00:05:06] Jon M: So what do you think potential solutions are to the dilemma?
[00:05:10] Kelsey N: I think potential solutions would be a case study, but my ideal solution would be an education and a track. Just like, this is for early childhood, but just like kindergarten through 12th grade, there is a track for leadership. Early childhood does not have a foundation in which they say you need to have these professional developments, or you need to know these aspects of how this runs so that there is one accord in how to handle certain situations, or how to make sure that teachers are a part of everything that’s happening, given that we are taking account of the whole child, including their family situations and… there’s just, they’re isolated issues, but there’s a way to handle it. There’s a way to find support and support each other so that we are supporting families and children and teachers alike.
[00:06:14] Amy H-L: Cyndhia, would you speak about your ethical scenario?
[00:06:18] Cyndhia S: Sure. So my ethical scenario came about based on kinda like a research within my, my Lehman College community. When we started sharing our experiences growing up in a school setting, a lot, I started hearing a lot of common scenarios where someone would say, “Yeah, my mom sent me to this particular school in this great neighborhood, but I didn’t feel seen,” or, “I felt like I needed to be accepted,” or, “I just didn’t have a good experience.” And that was a very common answers that I would get from a lot of, uh, students in the college when they were talking about their school experience, and I would ask them, “Where did you go?” And they would say very strategic schools, schools that require tuition on a yearly basis. So I started thinking, “Hmm, are these schools really better for us in a sense? Are they really kinda seeing the whole child? Are these children really having experiences that would give them opportunity, but are they really try- are they really seeing the benefits of these opportunities? Are they really having a good school experience?” So that’s where my ethical dilemma came about.
I just didn’t think that was a coincidence that so many people shared that they… and these people are of color, and they shared that they just didn’t have a good experience in school. And I come from a public school in New York City, and I could tell you I had a lovely experience. So I started weighing out the options. I started thinking about, “Hmm, I wonder if, now if parents are really making a good, a better choice for their child sending them into schools where they think they’re going to be be offered, where they know they’re going to be be offered opportunities, but will their child actually have a good experience?”
[00:08:13] Amy H-L: Have you thought of any ways that those children could have a good experience at some of these more elite schools?
[00:08:20] Cyndhia S: I think being culturally responsive is definitely one of them. When there’s not diversity involved, I feel that especially probably 10 years ago, teachers probably didn’t feel like they, 10 or 20 years ago, they didn’t feel like they need to do above and beyond when it comes to teaching children in the classroom. Now that I see a lot of different cultures even within our community, we feel like we need to reach out, we need to learn, we need to be more, more assertive and more take the initiative in learning so many different cultures within our classroom because we see that difference. We see how the child excels better in the classroom when they are feeling seen. And so not having that cultural knowledge in the classroom, it makes the child feel like they’re not welcome, they’re not being part of this community.
[00:09:14] Jon M: How do we get there? When you see a situation like that, what do you think are ways to in fact make the school, sensitive to, cultural diversity?
[00:09:29] Cyndhia S: It definitely starts in the classroom where the teacher has to take that note and say, “This child. Let’s give out surveys. Let’s see what the children, where their background is. Let’s see where they come from.” Speak to parents, right. So it starts with those little actions of, “Oh, that you’re from this country.” Just learning more about the, the parents in your classroom. And then you take that into a bigger, in a bigger spectrum and, when you have that opportunity of having, talking to the principal, having that just in a bigger scale, in a bigger meeting. We need to talk about the different cultures in our school in general. How many children are coming from this place, or have this culture, or this background? And think once they have that in mind and they can actually have more knowledge and, all right, so… because in my classroom particularly, I have many different cultures and I take the time to get to know the parents and get to know what is meaningful to them, so I can incorporate it in the classroom. And so I feel like teachers could take that initiative in their classrooms. And every year is different. So that’s the one way they could start. They could start by “let’s get to know the students and the families within our classroom,” and then taking it to a bigger scale so that everyone could be more aware that being culturally responsive is very important.
[00:10:47] Jon M: Does the state encourage or prioritize classes like yours where teachers discuss ethical issues?
[00:10:54] Kym V: Well, I’ll answer that in a couple of different ways. I think the answer is yes. They, there is a New York State code of ethics for teachers. The National Association for the Education of Young Children has a very detailed, really thorough, and quite good code of ethics. Most accrediting bodies that give accreditation to teacher education programs look for a component of ethics education. So the answer is yes, there are codes that are supposed to be followed, and yes, teacher education programs are required to have an ethics component in order to be accredited. I do think we could do more and do better, and the reason is this: teachers are going to be in classrooms, and they are going to face ethical dilemmas. It is 100% guaranteed that’s going to happen. And our goals should be, yes, to make sure teachers understand how to write lesson plans and objectives and do assessments. Those are really important to us, but we also want to make sure that teachers have a framework for understanding how to deal with an ethical dilemma when it comes up.
At its heart, considering ethics is really about the public good. We are really asking teachers to think, and Cyndhia and Kelsey are very good examples of that, that we need to be thinking about not just our own perspective as educators, but how about the parents? How about children? How about your colleagues, the administration, your community? All of these perspectives need to be taken into account when an ethical dilemma comes up, and this, again, is the essence of what it means to educate for the public good, and it also hearkens back to the very people who helped found education and then reform for progressive education.
And that is, you could even look at John Dewey, who had some very problematic things in his own past. But in his pedagogical creed, he talks about all the different stakeholders in education. So this is really what we’re asking students to do. Consider everybody at the table, who’s not at the table, maybe who’s at the table but their voice isn’t being heard. And when Kelsey referenced before the case studies that they do for this assignment, we ask them not to actually come up with solutions. We say we just want the problem, because these case studies are vehicles for discussion, and we want our teachers leaving our program being able to discuss and articulate what the problem is before they can generate solutions. And I think that’s one of the biggest problems we have right now is that we sometimes want to jump to the solution before we’ve really looked at all the different perspectives and can have a conversation and identify what are the problems here, what are the ethical dilemmas from the different perspectives.
[00:14:51] Amanda: Hi, this is Amanda, Ethical Schools’ editor and social media manager. I want to tell you about our new video, Penalty Kick. A student threatens to report a classmate’s family to ICE. What should the school do? That’s the question at the center of Penalty Kick.
As always, the video and discussion guide are free. After you listen to this episode, go to ethicalschools.org and click on Videos, or find the link to Penalty Kick in the description of this episode. Now let’s go back to Kym, Kelsey, and Cyndhia.
[00:15:25] Jon M: I’m curious, you mentioned codes of ethics, say, from NAEYC- or from the State or accrediting organizations. Can you talk a little bit about what these look like? How do institutions or bodies like this sort of approach the whole issue of what’s ethical behavior for a field?
[00:15:45] Kym V: Sure. So New York State has a very brief code of ethics. You can find it on the New York State Education website. And I doubt that many people would disagree with it. It basically is that teachers have an obligation to consider all the stakeholders, to treat parents well, to be a good colleague. It really is about the different stakeholders.
The NAEYC, their code of ethics is much more detailed, and they have recently done some updating to catch up to what Cyndhia recommended, which is to be more culturally responsive. And for the NAEYC, I think it’s really the, it’s the governing body, but also the membership that drives this demand to look at what should we be doing, what are our values, and what are our obligations to children and their communities in this profession.
[00:17:00] Amy H-L: New York City introduced pre-K and 3-K, and is now introducing 2-K. So while middle and upper class children may have the resources to get what they need at home to supplement school, many low income kids don’t. So what are the issues that need to be resolved for those to be high quality programs, especially for low income children?
[00:17:31] Kym V: Well, Amy, I do want to address one thing with your question, and that is I’m going to be use funds of knowledge to answer that question. And that is that all of our children are whatever resources or identified lack of resources come from homes where there are funds of knowledge, where they are learning things. And we take that assets-based approach when thinking about what are children bringing with them, what resources do they have. So certainly, children who come from wealthier families have more access to early childhood programs traditionally.
And starting with, really we think of it, the big rollout in 2015 was under Mayor de Blasio, but we actually had UPK before that. It really started in the ’90s. When I was a kindergarten teacher at PS 11, we had a UPK there. But the big rollout where we went from, I think it was 25,000 to 75,000 seats, was in 2015, and now Mayor Mamdani is, is bringing on more 2K, as you mentioned. And that’s important, and we want that because we want to have access for all children.
We don’t want just if your parents can afford to pay $50,000 a year to send you to a pre-K, then you get to go to pre-K. So that’s really important to us as a profession. We all want all children to have access to this high-quality education. I will let Kelsey and Cyndhia speak to the issues that they’re seeing on the ground, so to speak.
[00:19:25] Kelsey N: Well, actually, Mamdani actually announced the, that press release happened to be at our school. Ah. So he was there and he announced that 2K is the next step. I think that right now there’s so many gaps and holes in the 3K, 4K, that 2K is really ambitious, and we want to see it. We want to see it happen.
But it’s so fragmented right now in terms of that leadership portion that I address in my central thesis where we need the leaders to be educated and to have those tools under their belt, as they say, and gain that knowledge so that they can, so it can be successful. So far, I think they’ve been even struggling with 3K and 4K programs, and especially going into the Head Start portion of it. Federally, it’s not, it’s just not sustaining. It doesn’t seem stable right now, with all of the politics involved in Head Start and the federal funding and how that’s going. So it’s very ambitious, and I would love to see this successfully be rolled out, though as per what Professor Vanderbilt said, yeah, we would love to see that. We want high quality education all around for all children. That accessibility is so important, not just from an educational perspective, but, we’re building up, building up new leaders and new educators and people in our field and in the community, and the next step of a generation of the world. However, the leadership portion is, is so fragmented that that needs to be something that is addressed. I would like to go further with the thesis . Kym, I need your help for that so we can…
[00:21:21] Kym V: Sure, anytime.
[00:21:21] Kelsey N: … push this agenda further. And talk to Mamdani at this point and say, “Hey, before this happens, I really need us to focus on the leadership so that this is successful.”
[00:21:32] Kym V: So I will say just yesterday, as it happens, I was at a meeting with the Mayor’s Innovation Team and his Early Childhood Team, and they have the same goals as we have. And I think it speaks in a broad way to the problem we’ve had historically in this field. So we were this close to getting universal childcare under the Nixon administration before any of you were even thought of being born. And…
[00:22:08] Jon M: Not all of us.
[00:22:10] Kym V: Yes. Well, I was alive. I don’t know, Jon, about you, but I was alive through that administration and probably complaining. But Nixon actually was going to do this. He was good with it, and then a very right-wing part of his party came in and killed it. So what we see is this isn’t new, that politics is playing a part in this.
So Kelsey, you make a really important point that Head Start is in trouble now because of federal funding. And so now you have a new administration in the City Hall in New York City, and I believe they desperately want to do good work. This was a linchpin of his campaign. This is something they all want. He has some great people there, but you do have other parts of government working against us right now. Yeah. This makes it really challenging, that this is still so much in the political sphere. Yeah. And you and Cyndhia see on a daily basis what this looks like in schools.
[00:23:28] Jon M: Are there issues in early childhood specifically related to special education and ways that all children who need special education can be receiving the services they need, and on the other hand, children aren’t inappropriately referred to special education?
[00:23:48] Kelsey N: I think, Cyndhia, we talk about this all the time in a forum with our other teacher- colleagues. Right now, going again to the political climate, the federal funding for special education has left children in classrooms that need more support and have not been receiving it and have been denied. We’ve appealed at least three times. A few families, we’ve been appealing, and they are just on a mandate not to approve any funds for children that are high-functioning, especially.
[00:24:23] Cyndhia S: Yeah. They’re not getting the services. But also, I’m just going to be say not only denied, but there’s also families who have not even gotten any type of response back. Yeah. There’s been such a delay on that in that area where they’ve been reaching out, reaching out, reaching out, and there hasn’t been any information or outreach or anything in terms of… I also had students who parents wanted their child to get evaluated so that they could receive the services, but there’s, like, no responses. They keep saying that the waiting list is just so long. So I think also that it’s a major issue as well.
[00:25:00] Kelsey N: Yeah. The shift has been documentation, documentation, documentation, and teachers are documenting. We are showing, and, and documenting, and that documentation has just been, well, denied for services for children that we know. And I mean, our experience and our assessments and all of the knowledge that we have, our funds of knowledge, as we say, have not been taken into account. So that lack of allowing teachers or educators, the lack of autonomy to be a part of the process, sometimes we’re not even a part of the process when evaluating a student, and it takes away a lot of autonomy when someone that doesn’t know the child that you’ve been teaching all year for eight hours a day comes in and makes an evaluation on this child in 30 minutes. With all the documentation and observations that we’ve had, that we’re not even interviewed for a few minutes so they can get our perspective.
And it’s very unfortunate because there’s just going to be be children in now any school they go to, most likely the public school system, where they’re going to be have gaps and they’re going to be just right now thrown into a classroom to kind of fend for themselves. And as educators, we are their biggest advocates.
[00:26:25] Cyndhia S: I also want to say that with that also there’s an issue in, just in the classroom itself. Yeah. When the child doesn’t get the support that they need, the teachers are left with behavior managementmost of the time, and less on teaching, and less on having the students learn something that day. And so that’s also causing another issue because now it’s a disservice to the students that are there to learn because now we’re too focused on the child that needs the extra support .
[00:26:55] Jon M: Why do you think this is happening and what can be done about it? Is it primarily a funding issue? Is it a, a structural misalignment of decision-making? if you’re talking to the policymakers, what would you say would be things that they can and should be doing right now?
[00:27:14] Kelsey N: From my experience, they’re all isolated experiences, so it just depends. I’ve had some parents that are not, they’re not educated enough to fully understand what it entails to have a child with special needs and, or exceptionalities and how to handle that. They may be overwhelmed. Some parents just do not approach, some don’t show up to parent-teacher conferences, and then you have the perspective where they do get the full evaluation, and then they’re denied services. So it just, it depends, and they have the most supportive parents, and they are understanding of the process, and even if they’re not, they do trust the teachers and that admin will support them through the process to help their child because at the end of the day, one common thread I’ve seen is that parents want their children to succeed, and so they are willing to put their trust in the teachers and administration to help them, even if it’s something they don’t fully understand, and we’re there to help them.
But I’ve seen parents just appeal because they know. I’ve had a parent that is also a special needs educator, and we sat through some very, very long meetings for services, and they were denied. And we said, “We’re going to appeal,” and we appealed it, and they were denied again. And we’re just still working to make sure that their child gets the services that they need and the support they need, especially going now into kindergarten and into a bigger school system than just our community-based organization.
So I think it’s depends. There are so many stakeholders involved. Sometimes it’s just an isolated situation, but funding is a major aspect of it, of course, I believe.
[00:28:58] Amy H-L: Are these denials at the, the city, the county, the state, or federal levels? who is…
[00:29:06] Kelsey N: From what I know, they’re local … I do know someone who approves and denies and is at the headquarters, and they explained to me that they were told that federal funding, and they were told that, that right now they’re not approving any services for children unless it’s severe.
And if they’re high-functioning, which was one of the reasons that one of the evaluators explained to me and to three of the families this year, if they’re high-functioning, that they’re all fine. However, socially and emotionally, children are lacking, and that can cause huge gaps in the future of their education without the support. So it’s on two levels.
Yes, some of the funding is absolutely federal funding, but the decisions are locally based. And what we do know is things got much worse during and after COVID, and I know Kelsey and Cyndhia are not in these boroughs, but the boroughs that were hit the hardest in New York City were Queens and the Bronx.
And what I mean by that is I think Cindy and Kelsey have identified two issues. One is that we’re having a hard time getting children evaluated. So in order to be evaluated, we need evaluators. And they’re much fewer, and one of the things that happened during COVID is that the DOE had a hard time getting people paid on time, so fewer people were willing to do evaluations for the DOE. So we need more evaluators. That’s one problem.
And then the other problem that they’ve identified is once you get an evaluation, getting the services, and that is done at a local issue. So if you live in Westchester, it’s done by the town that you live in. There’s a board, there’s a group of people you go before, and that board, and they decide whether or not you qualify for the services. And usually the teacher writes a report, and if possible, the teacher is at this meeting. It starts with early intervention and then there’s a committee on preschool special education, and then in kindergarten it’s just the regular committee on special education at the DOE level in New York City. So we need more evaluators. And also when budgets are cut, then there’s less money to give out for these services for children. And that trickles down from federal funding, state funding. All the different pools of money are going to impact each other. So it’s not an easy situation.
I will say there, there is a woman who does this work at the state level and she has now, I think for the first time at the state level, they’ve gotten things online to streamline the process. So it’s not that there are people who, there are people who just don’t care. They do. This woman who works at the state has worked tirelessly. My colleagues at Brooklyn College have an extraordinary early intervention program that frankly we would love to see at Lehman College as well. There are a lot of people working very hard on this issue.
But again, Jon, as you said, it does come down in part to money and funding. Yeah. And this does end up being a fairly localized issue, even though we’re very dependent on federal and state and city money.
[00:32:52] Jon M: So I just wanted to ask a question about what are some of the issues that early childhood teachers face as employees, either in your individual situations or if you have a general sense of, as a class of workers, what are issues that early childhood teachers are facing?
[00:33:20] Cyndhia S: I would say teacher autonomy versus compliance from an educational perspective. Teachers are encouraged to be reflective and to create and, but pressured to follow, standardized systems that really don’t align with the teaching philosophies that we’re trying to apply throughout our daily schedules.
I can give you an example. This is outside of my case study, but it’s something that I’ve been addressing again, where leadership is not really fully understanding what it is that we do. Within the school, there’s a schedule, and each teacher follows that because there’s standard metrics that we need to meet, like an hour of gross motor and obviously our small groups and our lessons. But when there’s enrichment, things change, right. We have to readjust our schedules, and each classroom has a different enrichment schedule. And therefore, while enrichment would happen at 10:00, it would conflict with gross motor, which happens at 11:00. So you would probably have to do gross motor at 9:00 so that we meet those metrics, and the children are getting their enrichment and, they’re having lunch and they’re having nap. In early childhood, they still nap.
So these are all standardized metrics and schedules that we all need to follow. And so balancing that and having the autonomy to do so is so important, and sometimes you just don’t have that. So I think that autonomy and compliance, making sure that we are also implementing developmentally appropriate everything, right, throughout the day, not just our lesson plans, but also language throughout the day, a climate in our classroom, culture within the school, which is also something that we’ve had to implement with anyone, right, anyone who comes into our school, we’re like, “Good morning,” and, “how are you doing this morning?” And so we have to model what we want children to emulate once they step into a building or in a place. Just greet. Those are the little nuances that we can control. But other metrics and compliance, that can conflict with what it is to be an educator.
[00:35:49] Kelsey N: I also believe another big issue is finding the funds to actually pay teachers, and the value in teachers. I feel that, I’m not sure if early childhood is still a career where we’re not really being valued or seen as a high value teachers. And so we’re not getting compensated, especially with all the experiences and all the degrees that we will have under our belt to show that, yes, we are qualified to to be teachers, early childhood educators.
But for some reason, I’ve seen in working where I, at the school that I work at now, I’ve seen so many great teachers come in and go, and it’s just because of the funds. And I feel like that’s another major, major issue or challenges that early childhood is facing, is finding great teachers, but also being able to pay them, being able to compensate them. So I agree, Cyndhia …
[00:36:57] Kym V: I just want to give a quote that I think is so aligned with what you’re saying, Cyndhia. This was a woman at the Amalgamated Nursery School, an assistant teacher who had been there for 17 years, and has since there left, since then left to go on to a different job. And she said, ” If they’re going to make me get a master’s degree, then why do they give me prepackaged curriculum and tell me what I have to do?” One or the other, right. Like, if I’m educated, respect the fact that I’m educated. Yeah. I know how to do this, right. And, and I mention her because we have some pay parity now with our community-based organization, the pay of the teachers with the public schools. Not total, but it’s gotten much better.
Where we really don’t have pay parity is with our assistant teachers and our directors. Someone from the Department of Education was saying to me yesterday at this meeting, what we most need is education directors. But the education directors in some cases are either paid the same as the teachers or less than the teachers.
So what happens, people get trained in these community-based organizations that we are now relying on for pre-K, 3K, and 2K. Yeah. And then they leave and move to the Department of Education. Indeed. And as both Cyndhia and Kelsey will tell you, as their instructor and their mentor, I’m not going to be say, “Don’t do that,” because they need to pay their bills, and they have children that they need to take care of. But what it does is it leaves us with a lack of leadership, a lack of education directors. And these assistant teachers, who in so many ways are the foundation of our community-based organizations. Why? Because they tend to live in the community. They frequently have sent their own children to these schools. And speak the language of the families. And they are making, in some cases, in many cases, they are making less money than the fast food workers in their… If you go to Fordham Road, the people who are just started at Wendy’s are making more than the assistant teachers at the Amalgamated Nursery School or at some of these other community-based organizations. We just got an article that a manager in Trader Joe’s makes six figures.
[00:39:34] Cyndhia S: A manager in Trader Joe’s makes six figures while teachers are not … the other teachers are not even. Yeah.
[00:39:40] Kym V: And look, I’m happy for those Trader Joe managers.
[00:39:43] Kelsey N: No, yeah, it’s great. I’m sure. We’re, we’re happy for them. But we have the disparity. Like, it doesn’t add up.
[00:39:50] Kym V: We have to find a way to make this a career that people can stay in. And it is the maternalization of this profession, and that is the skills that you need to do this job are just the skills that mothers have. Therefore, it’s not a real profession. Therefore, we really don’t have to pay people for it. And this started from the beginning. You can go back to the common school movement and see that this is where it started. But it’s time to end it. Yeah. It’s time to say this isn’t just about women who love children, and we do, but it is a profession, and we have skills, and we have real knowledge. And we need to be paying our early childhood teachers. And that is a huge ethical dilemma.
[00:40:42] Kelsey N: And if the requirements are that in order to be a lead teacher you need your master’s, then you need to pay me what it costs to be a lead teacher with a master’s.
And aside from that, I think the disparity is they’re starting to close the gap because right now I feel like, they’re being cornered. And I say they, as in the policymakers. They’re being cornered because right now people are just seeing how teachers are being treated, and they’re just like, “You know what? I don’t think I want to do that.” And so right now there’s a huge shortage of teachers. And from what I know, in the Department of Education right now, there’s a huge number of teachers, and paras, and assistant teachers that are retiring this year, including one of my aunts. So it’s just like now they really need it, and they’re making it more appealing to try to gain a new teacher population.
But for me it was just like, I’m glad and I’m happy for that, and I think that’s great, but I wish that it was just not only based on this, but based on the true value of acknowledging the value that teachers in early education bring. And to see the parents’ faces every day and the work that we do, and how they go home and have these, the communication. The parents know what’s going on. Just to see them develop and grow in the way that they have just from September, and the parents being proud of that goes to show that, yeah, the work that we do is very valuable. We’re preparing them for kindergarten. Right now it’s like, oh, it’s a big deal. Well, and that’s right.
[00:42:17] Cyndhia S: And for life. I was going to be say that, and for life. And for life, of course. These are foundational skills and experiences that we’re providing, and so it should be, it should be held to a higher esteem. I think it’s starting. I mean, like, it’s beginning, and to really get out there, the work that we do. So just going to keep on.
[00:42:42] Jon M: Thank you, Dr. Kym Vanderbilt of Lehman College, Kelsey Nova and Cyndhia Silvero, early childhood teachers. Thank you very much.
[00:42:46] Cyndhia S: Thank you so much, Jon and Amy.
[00:42:48] Kelsey N: Thank you.
[00:42:52] Amy H-L: And thank you, listeners. If you found this podcast worthwhile, please share it with friends and colleagues. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and give us a rating or review. This helps others to find the show. Check out our website for more episodes and videos and to subscribe to our monthly emails. We post annotated transcripts of our interviews to make them easy to use in workshops or classes. Contact us at hosts@ethicalschools.org. We’re on Bluesky, Facebook, Instagram, Threads, and LinkedIn. Our editor and social media manager is Amanda Denti. Until next time.