[00:00:15] Jon M: I’m Jon Moscow. Welcome to Ethical Schools. Amy won’t be able to join us this evening. Our guests today are Dr. David Penberg, Madelyn Baez, and Tara Crichlow. We’re doing a retrospective discussion of Bank Street College’s Liberty Partnership Program during the 1990s, and its impact on participants.
David was the founding director, and Madelyn and Tara were students in the first cohort. Welcome, David, Madelyn, and Tara. David, can you briefly describe the Liberty Partnership Program?
[00:00:45] David P: Thank you, Jon. Yeah, the Liberty Partnership Program was in fact the brainchild of Mario Cuomo, who coined, the 1990s as the Decade of the Child. So the Liberty Partnership Program was one of those outputs. It was an intervention program designed for middle school students attending public schools, throughout the state of New York to participate in after school and weekend programs and summer programs under the Liberty Partnership umbrella, and there were 52 of them, consortiums, higher ed, and public schools. And the idea was that if students would complete high school, their participation in the program, they’d get a free ride, a full scholarship at any state university. Within a year, that was rescinded, but the program, continued on for another 35 years. But I think actually it’d be more interesting to find out what Madelyn and Tara understood to be the purpose and the reason for the Liberty Program. Yeah.
[00:01:23] Madelyn B: So initially, as a 12-year-old, that’s what I thought the Liberty Partnership was, is a safe place where I got to be with other teens and kids my age, and where we got to learn about different things that we weren’t being exposed to at school. So that’s what it was for me when I think of it as a middle schooler.
[00:01:43] David P: Tara, how about you?
[00:01:45] Tara C: I was thinking of it as a place to definitely socialize, to get free stuff. We were, like, guaranteed a free college education, so that was a big motivating factor for me. I could socialize with people who also were, like, trying to do something with their life, and I was pushed to take myself more seriously than I was in school.
You know, we would have to write things and talk in front of people, and, like, really reflect on, you know, if we were part of the council or something, we’d have to reflect on conflicts and how to really find resolutions. So it was a safe place, for sure, that really catered to the things that actually interested me, and also taught me how to speak up for myself, develop my own opinions, and advocate for myself, yeah, in a way that, yeah, where I felt that certain power positions and roles for a young person of color considered at risk, like, this was a place where they were offering a lifeline. Whatever that title is, we’re gonna help you, you know, achieve your, your life’s dreams.
[00:03:08] Jon M: So David, what was the actual structure and what were the goals when the program was started?
[00:03:13] David P: Yeah. So ostensibly it was a college preparatory program, as Tara said. In year one, it lasted one year, you were guaranteed a full ride in any state university if you stayed in the program and graduated from high school.
So it was both a intervention program. Again, to be eligible you needed to be at risk, and there was a large inventory of descriptors that fit that. And we partnered with four … It was partnerships of college with a community-based organization and four public schools that were in the Upper West Side and that became the feeder schools.
Children essentially and families self-selected. And we did two things. The structure was a, what we called a weekend college, and it was a Saturday program; started at 9:00, went until 1:00, and, you know, it was a potpourri of all kinds of experiential hands-on learning opportunities that appealed to young people’s interest in communication and self-expression.
And so we did everything you could imagine to get a 12, 13-year-old out of bed on a Saturday morning coming to a foreign environment, i.e. Bank Street. You know, everything from filmmaking to martial arts to counseling sessions. There was, as both Madelyn and Tara said, a strong emphasis on writing and reading, creatively, critically.
And so it was organized like an after-school program in the sense of you had to participate in an academic course as well as a counseling course, and then there were electives. And so there was an element of choice that was embedded in the program. And we bought a lot of pizzas over the years, but food was a part of the safety element and the welcoming element.
And at the outset there were over 300 12, 13-year-olds running around. Attrition set in and basically we were a program of about 150, 160. And on a good Saturday, Bank Street was rocking. It was animate and alive and a wonderful place to be. And we ran it the entire academic year, and then in the summer we did a residential environmental writing academy up at Bard College for the kids who were integral parts of the community on Saturday. That’s how they were selected.
[00:05:43] Jon M: So were there explicit goals when the program was started, and did they change at all as the program went along?
[00:05:50] David P: Ostensibly, it was get these kids, get these kids educated. Do what you can to create programs that would not only keep them in their respective schools, but what might also, you know, open up pathways, as I think Tara said, in terms of doing something of meaning with their lives.
So ostensibly, get them through middle school and high school, do whatever support was required, and that would enable them to go on to college, the Liberty Partnerships. By the way, just not as a footnote, and it’s quite central, that lasted one year before that dried up.
[00:06:27] Jon M: The guaranteed college?
[00:06:29] David P: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:06:31] Jon M: And that dried up because of the funding?
[00:06:33] David P: Yeah.
[00:06:35] Jon M: Oh. Madelyn, Tara, how did you each come to be participants? Do you remember how you- … got into it?
Your mothers dragged you.
[00:06:47] Madelyn B: I guess I can… I don’t know if Tara, ’cause Tara, were you a year ahead of me, or were we in the same grade? I couldn’t remember, but I felt like…
[00:06:56] Tara C: I think we were ahead of you.
[00:06:58] Madelyn B: Yeah. I felt like it was in a class at Lincoln Academy. I think it was in one of the electives, ’cause at Lincoln Academy was set up where we had our core classes in the morning, and then after lunch you pick an elective. And I think it was in one of the elective that there were a group of us at this table in the classroom, and they mentioned, “Would any one of you guys be interested in this new program?”
I mean, I think we got a little bit of information from there, and I, I know that I was very interested. One, I wanted to get out of my house, and because it was academic-oriented, it was something that I can talk my, my mom into letting me do. So that I remember really clearly.
[00:07:42] David P: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[00:07:43] Jon M: Tara?
[00:07:45] Tara C: All I remember is, like, a meeting, and I remember seeing Kimani. In my mind’s eye, I see Kimani and his mom there, and yes, just other people from Lincoln Academy and their moms. Eukedis Webb and his mom.
[00:08:02] David P: Eukedis.
[00:08:03] Tara C: Just a bunch of us, cafeteria or some… Not a cafeteria. But we were in a school place and a bunch of us just, you know, at this meeting. It felt very community-oriented, and it felt very family activism-y. Like we’re trying to have a better future, you know, as a community, and parents wanting that for their kids, and kids just being, “Wow, we’re out here late with everybody.”
Mm-mm. Not to interrupt you. So the outreach was we, Fern Khan, who was the guardian saint of Liberty, she was the head of what was called at that time Continuing Education at Bank Street, at the college. She and I organized this a coming out, and we invited, with the cooperation of the school principals from the four schools, parents with their children. It was a big gala and a hoopla, and here’s this new program that’s beginning. So that was the outreach, and apparently it worked. Word got out.
[00:09:12] Jon M: How were each of your experiences in the program different from your experiences at school? And I’m thinking not just academics or whatever, but in terms of sort of the environment, the way people treat each other, those kinds of atmospheric or environmental, cultural questions.
[00:09:34] Madelyn B: I think for me, some of the differences were just even the physical environment. The program was located on the Upper West Side at Bank Street College. That area was very different from the one where I was growing up and also where I was attending high school. So the physical environment was very different. Another thing for me was the access to adults. I think the type of communication and just the openness that people like David, Maureen, some of the other counselors, I felt like when I walked into the space, I was treated very much not as a child per se, but I felt like I was important and I had a voice. And so I felt like we were peers even though they were adult. It never felt there was this hierarchy like you’re this child and I’m this adult. It just felt very, just felt very welcoming, and it felt like a very, very safe environment. And I was just thinking back also because the Saturday program meant at times I didn’t have fare to get to Bank Street. And I even remember just, I think David or Maureen even making sure I had a token. It was a token back in the days, you know, to get back and forth from my home to the program. So it was just a very warm, welcoming environment. Even though now looking back as an adult and even later on as an older teen, I knew what the program was about, the way that it was presented wasn’t about someone trying to save my future, if that makes any sense. It felt like I was there to learn. We were there to experience. I would get asked questions about what I was interested in, what was going on with me, with my peers. I just felt like my world was important and it was meaningful. So it was very different in that regard.
[00:11:33] David P: Mm-hmm. Mm.
[00:11:34] Tara C: So for me, like I did not feel very supported in school. I was bullied in school ’cause I used to get very good grades. So yeah, I just remember there were times students would be ready to beat me up or the teachers would just be, “Oh, well.” And I’m like, “Wow, thanks.” I also remember I had to go to outside schools to do math because the school did not have math to keep up with where I was at academically, even though it was a math and science school.
And I remember I wasn’t allowed to be the valedictorian because they said I was too young. So in school, I just did not feel very supported or taken seriously. It felt more like people were there to do their job, and that was for me and everyone else to hopefully pass their tests and get a Regents diploma or something.
But at Bank Street, at Liberty, I definitely noticed a difference in the atmosphere, as Madelyn mentioned. Yeah, and, and even the trust that like, oh, they’re letting you use their classroom, so don’t break up the place, you know? That level of trust. And yeah, just getting assistance with applying to colleges, getting the free waivers for our college applications.
Not feeling ashamed that we’re not rich or, you know, like not made to feel bad because we are seen as “at risk” or need financial support to help even out the scales with other people who are also applying to schools and things, helping us with SAT prep. I don’t know. I agree with what Madelyn said about feeling like we were amongst peers, even with David and Maureen and the other counselors and facilitators. Everyone gave you a level of trust. We’re trusting you to do this thing ’cause you’re capable of doing it, or we’re trusting you to do this presentation. Yeah, just this level of belief through their actual behavior.
[00:13:47] David P: Mm.
[00:13:48] Tara C: It was just a … I just felt better at Liberty because I was treated as a full human being with my own mind and,
[00:13:57] David P: Mm
[00:13:59] Tara C: Yeah, worthy of respect and dignity, even if I was a teenager from not the richest background and the most prestigious family line.
[00:14:10] David P: Mm-hmm. Hmm.
[00:14:14] Jon M: When we’ve talked before, you’ve both mentioned environmental conversations at Liberty. Did the conversations and activities influence how you’ve lived your lives?
[00:14:26] Madelyn B: So when you’re using the word environmental, you mean like environmental studies?
[00:14:31] Jon M: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:14:33] Madelyn B: Yeah, certainly for me, my exposure to science at the Liberty Partnership Program was a game changer for me. I don’t recall ever necessarily being interested in the topic or thinking about science in that way outside of like a textbook. And I think my exposure in Liberty, actually particularly in the summer program at Bard College, was very, very impactful. I think my first summer there, and I might have mentioned this before, we worked with a science teacher from the school at Bank Street who was our teacher during that week or two, and we were doing really, to me, amazing things. Instead of just sitting in the classroom reading about something in the old, in the textbook, we were out in nature, out on the Hudson, asking questions, thinking about all the things around us that could affect the ecosystem and the river, and it was a very enlightening experience for me. I felt very connected and very committed, to want to understand how I have an impact on the environment around me. And it had a profound effect in my interest in science, initially wanting to pursue more and learn more about environmental studies, and then that being a gateway for me to eventually become very interested in just the environment within your brain and how the brain works, and it became my focus as a college student and then in graduate school, and eventually in the work that I do now as a research scientist. So it had a very impactful effect on me personally in regards to environmental studies.
[00:16:28] Jon M: And Tara, the audience can’t see you, but you’ve been nodding your head. Is there anything you wanted to add?
[00:16:30] Tara C: Yeah. Like I know that I am a city kid 1,000%, so going up to Bard definitely gave me an opportunity to step outside of that comfort zone. Like I definitely had my Jurassic Park moments like, “Oh no, the sun’s going down. Do we have to run to the other cabin? It’s not that far, but I’m scared to run down the path by myself.” And yeah, wearing those fisher boots that come up to your thighs, and walking in water and testing it, and looking for the color it turns. And just, you know, as a city kid, it’s nice to engage with nature in that way, which nowhere else was that gonna happen ’cause my family doesn’t do that.So yeah, that was really helpful.
And going to China for the foreign exchange program, that was, as far as my environment, that really was a game changer for me because, one, I live near Chinatown, so to go to China and be like, wow, I see the similarities, but I also see the differences, and wow, this doesn’t taste like Chinese food in New York, and wow, everything in my house that says “Made in China” was made here. The environment, the world, and people, like, and learning about acupuncture and Chinese medicine, which … And I feel really honored even nowadays. Wow, I went to China when it was, like, official [inaudible] China in the ’90s when they got their first McDonald’s in Beijing. But anyways, though. Before that, I don’t think I was ever envisioning that I would even get to go in an airplane or see other parts of the world.
So yeah, in general, the program definitely helped me to have a better scope of the earth, of the people on the earth, different cultures, how cultures shift when they come to America. So…
[00:18:38] Jon M: How long was the trip to China? How long did you all stay?
[00:18:42] Tara C: I was there for six weeks. That was my first time in an airplane. I was on the airplane for, like, 16 hours. Okay? Okay? It was so…
[00:18:56] David P: I think they were called the Eisenhower Scholarships or something like that that had to do with diplomacy and sending young people, right, abroad. But I just wanted to add that one of the things that was so different about our approach was that we weren’t looking to fix the students. We weren’t looking to remediate the students, and the model was not one of, of deficit, you know? It was all about assets. And in saying that, it meant that you bring your best self here, and let’s co-design the opportunities that we can make for each other. So it was like Madelyn said, there wasn’t this…If there was hierarchy, it was very fluid and not rigid, but where 13, 14-year-olds can suddenly or gradually have the opportunity to make decisions, you know, exercise their agency, that nice word. And once the the scholarship ended and it wasn’t about getting the free ride, it became, okay, this is a place to learn, and you can co-design this with us, and that was something really unique and special that enabled, I think, this deep impact to occur over time.
[00:20:21] Madelyn B: I agree with David and I want to add to that as well. There was also this, um, I don’t even, I didn’t even remember that we were offered scholarships for college if we stayed in the program. That’s how, that was a short-lived and definitely not a monumental thing in my head. But I, I do agree, just this idea of opportunities. I know that a lot of us were a little bit more vocal than others, and instead of telling us to keep quiet, you guys developed the, the student advisory council where we got to voice our opinions, come together and try to make change. I just felt like everything was spun in the most positive way for us to experience and grow, and I think, like I said, that was very, very important for me as a teenager. Just this idea.
And also, not only in the experiences that we had in the weekend college and in the summer program, but, and I’m sure it was intentional. I didn’t think about this back then as a kid, but the counselors and the other young adults that were brought in to help and guide us were also hugely influential. But I want to say they were even more impactful than I’d realized. Just having a counselor who’s just completed their first year in college, who looked like me, was somebody that I can immediately look up to. I’m thinking of, uh, Trevor Scotland.
[00:21:54] David P: Mm.
[00:21:54] Madelyn B: Who I think he, I don’t remember what age he was when he became a counselor, but I think he maybe had been a sophomore at Vassar College. And just, yeah, having those conversations with him outside while he’s walking our group from one class to the other about his experience and his travels to study abroad at Senegal as a college student. I don’t know, it just felt like this person looked like me. Everything was possible. I just never thought that I couldn’t do something because I was surrounded by people who were doing all the things that they were interested in, and it was just, it was just very impactful in that way.
[00:22:34] Jon M: David, you said that one of the things you were looking to create was “uncomfortable empowerment.” What does that mean, and how did you create it?
[00:22:45] David P: No, that was, that was Tara who said that, but I’ll…
[00:22:48] Jon M: I’m sorry.
[00:22:49] David P: No, no, no, that’s okay. Look, I think all of us would agree that everyone was intentionally stretched and pushed beyond their comfort zone, because that’s where the learning takes place.So it was an environment in which failure is okay. We don’t make fun of, we don’t disrespect. So in exposure and experiences to, whether it be China or Guatemala or Bard College, the idea was the world is there. Let’s bring the world to Liberty students and Liberty students out into the world. And this was a lab. I mean, it’s a lab school, Bank Street, and a school for children, so this program was a laboratory and experiment in how do we devise this environment that really can help to grow good, caring, and learning human beings under optimal conditions without it being a school.
[00:23:53] Jon M: I’m particularly interested in this idea of uncomfortable. So what was that like for you, Tara and Madelyn, the uncomfortable part?
[00:24:03] Tara C: Since it was initially something I had stated, the uncomfortableness was that I would have to speak in front of people, or that I would have to have a perspective on something.I don’t know, like, “No, how do you really feel or think about it?” Or, you know, when we would come into writing class, we would have to write nonstop for five minutes. So I don’t have anything … “You gotta write. Just keep writing.” You know, pushing you to develop yourself, and it wasn’t anything humiliating. It wasn’t a humiliation ritual or embarrassment. It was just, “You can do this. We’re gonna push you to keep getting more confident in these skill sets that actually you’re gonna need in the world outside for real.” So yeah, I can be a introvert. I can definitely lean into that. And I’m also on the spectrum, so things can make me just rather be quiet and just hide out in the back and do my own thing.
So Bank Street helped me get my first jobs with the Summer Youth Employment Program, or when I worked at Bank Street, just different ways of putting you in a position to trust yourself with more responsibility than maybe other people are showing they believe you have the capability to manage. It makes me think how, and I know it’s a global generic statement, that for the most part, kids are underdeveloped, unseen and underdeveloped in public school settings, right?
[00:25:36] David P: That’s a broad statement. So I think the opposite is how we approached this experiment. Let’s create options and opportunities, exposure, experience. Let’s bring people who are doing purposeful, important things in their lives who might even resemble these 14, 15-year-old teenagers. And there were no grades, right. But it was a very different sense of accomplishment. The assessments were self-assessments, right? It was reflection. You were held accountable to the community, and that’s why the advisory council was such an important like movement towards democratic behavior. And this didn’t all happen overnight. You know, this was incremental and, and took time, and then a culture actually got forged, created…
[00:26:26] Tara C: Can I just add something also really quick that came to mind? During that whole Central Park jogger thing and the Exonerated Five, that was a time I remember feeling, you know, before we knew who the young guys were that they were gonna, you know, they were identified, it was like it could’ve been any of the people that I know from program.
[00:26:51] David P: Mm.
[00:26:52] Tara C: And just the way the media was talking about basically our peer group, talking about wildin’, which is a word that we used, but not the way it was, you know, demonized in the media. It was just a very uncomfortable, scary, painful time, and I do remember feeling glad that Bank Street was a safe place at that time, where I could be amongst my peers and be amongst adults who were not looking at us as these evil savages and all of that. And I feel also that’s so instrumental even nowadays, like when you look at Trump was the one who bought out a whole page talking about executing these innocent teenagers, and law and order. SUV is based on that evil lawyer lady. Her whole story has this TV show that is still on.
So just saying, yeah, while those evils are in society, it was really great to have a safe place for marginalized communities like ours to at least gather, support each other, and, you know, not feel so demonized just for being- Mm Mm. Uh, I would say for me, I think now looking back, I think I was one of the younger kids to start. I mean, I was still 12 years old, and I feel like my entry into Liberty came at a very important time because I wouldn’t say that I ever experienced uncomfortableness. I think for the first time I was finding my own voice. And it coincided with the Liberty Program, which was…I was very vocal. I learned that I had a voice, and I had opinions, and I had beliefs, and that was encouraged. So if anything, during that time, I remember feeling like, “I can do whatever I want to do. There are people that believe in me. If there’s something injustice going on in the world…” I felt very empowered. I don’t know if that makes any sense.So there was all these things happening… but I would come into the program. I had a space where I could voice what I was feeling. We even talked about, “Well, what can you do to make a change? What can we do?” And there was, I think I was learning about action. There’s things that you can do. You have a voice, and if you’re around people that are supporting you, that can have an impact.
And so I think I took all of that energy and all of that concern and all of that even angst, and I tried to be, I don’t know. I just tried to make a change. Whether it was letting David or Maureen, letting them know what I was thinking or asking for opportunities. I think there was at one point we were concerned about funding and the program and were like, “We have this opportunity to go lobby to the governor in Albany.” You know? There were just so many different positive outlets for me, and I think being younger, it had an impact in my development as a teenager.
[00:30:09] Jon M: Did participation in the program have any impact on your relationships with your family and your friends?
[00:30:17] Madelyn B: Yeah, absolutely. I don’t even remember high school. What I remember are Liberty, yeah, and the people that I was learning with at Liberty. That’s, those are all my core memories. I cannot tell you specifically anything about my high school experience other than some monumental ones that weren’t positive. But my friendships were formed really at the Saturday program at Bank Street and Bard. And these are some people that I’m still very close with and I consider family members. They’re part of my life now, I’m a part of theirs. We’ve been through things with each other. We’ve been there through the birth of each other’s children When things have gone down, I was broke as a grad student, we would, you know, offer financial assistance. I mean, like, it’s just, I developed very close relationships with the people that I met and interacted with at Bank Street.
And it certainly did have an influence in my family life as well. I am an immigrant. I came to the US as an older child. English is not my first language, and I think that having people like David and Maureen Hornung and Kate Sussman around as resources as my family and I tried to navigate this new world and all of these other bureaucracies and politics and inequities and at schools and how do you help…I had a sibling who has learning challenges and the public school setting wasn’t working. I had access to Kate and Maureen, who helped me help my mom, who could not speak English, manage the education system and find appropriate resources for them. So, you know, my experience at Bank Street affected my entire family in a very positive way, and we’ve learned a lot through that. So it’s had a tremendous effect for me personally and my family dynamics and my younger siblings as well.
[00:32:30] Jon M: Tara, did you want to comment?
[00:32:32] Tara C: As far as family and friends, I mean, I definitely have friends from Liberty that, yeah, I’m still very cool with and keep in touch with. Even, like recently we had dinner with Dave. And yeah, I remember I would bring my best friend with me to Bank Street, so we were both helping each other fill out applications and write college essays and get those waivers, ’cause college essays were expensive. I mean, applications. Yeah, my family’s aware, but my sister did not come to Bank Street.Yeah, my family was not so involved per se. They were just happy I went to college and I stayed out of trouble, and I got work. I was working. Yeah, that, that’s really the extent of it for me.
[00:33:23] David P: Hmm. I just wanted to add this idea that relationships were the anchors, right? I think everyone is describing that. I mean, where else do you get to spend time with your friends and have fun and learn? You can’t do that at school, you know. But one of the drawing cards, without question, is it’s a safe place to hang out with your friends. So beyond that, and that’s critical, because that’s the primary, the peer group is the primary source of, of learning and identification. So those relationships were safe in that setting, and also then the relationships with peers that were coming from different parts of the city, like from the Bronx, from Brooklyn. It was like cross-cultural experiences, and that was a drawing card. You had kids coming from Brooklyn. Hmm. I don’t know if we had Staten Island. But it was an anchor, because then of course the relationship of the adults with the Liberty students, which was not hierarchical, and yet it was clearly based on mutual regard and trust. So I would really emphasize in uppercase the importance of relationships and how they were cultivated and intentionally thought about.
[00:34:35] Jon M: And David, what impact did the program have on you and your life?
[00:34:40] David P: Hmm. Everything I got to experience, everything that I had aspired, dreamed about, imagined as a teacher and as an educator. And in every subsequent school that I ran or taught in or a community program, I brought elements of the Liberty experience.It was my, my laboratory for learning how to learn, how to lead, how to teach, and what could happen when you assemble devoted, thoughtful, caring human beings, the potential and the possibilities. So the impact is lifelong. It continues to feed and nurture me.
[00:35:26] Jon M: What ultimately happened to Liberty Partnership Program?
[00:35:31] David P: You know, I guess the way of the soft money world, Jon. Liberty was a hot ticket for a couple of decades, was bringing in a, at least a quarter of a million dollars from the state and other private sources. So Bank Street, I’m sure, was pleased with that overhead. And then it became absorbed with another program that had been going on at Bank Street at the same time called Liberty Leads.And Liberty Leads was a Goldman Sachs-funded program, so not from the state, and it worked ostensibly with parochial schools, selecting, the crème de la crème. I don’t know what that hybrid is now, but Liberty Partnership was those students. That staff was absorbed by Liberty Leads. I mean, Madelyn, do you know any more than I do, or Tara?
[00:36:23] Madelyn B: No, I don’t. I don’t know. I know that it was a very different program from the time that we left. That’s all I know, but…
[00:36:31] David P: Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm-hmm.
[00:36:34] Jon M: Is there anything that we haven’t talked about that any of you would like to add?
[00:36:37] David P: Yes, if I may. Yes. And that is…
[00:36:39] Tara C: And, and me too.
[00:36:40] David P: All right. All right. And that is the human lives that are not here at the table who were part of Liberty. You know, Liberty didn’t save lives. It created opportunities, right, for young people to make their lives purposeful, but there were more than handfuls of young people who didn’t make it and who fell through the cracks, who a system failed, and who maybe we, to a certain degree, also failed. So I just want to honor them. These kinds of programs are not foolproof, but they do represent some meaningful way in which to provide purpose to the lives of young people. Madelyn?
[00:37:26] Madelyn B: Yeah. Thank you, David. I was gonna say too, like, there was something really special about this program, not just the intentions behind the Liberty Program, but the people, you know, like David Penberg, and the fact that it was at Bank Street College. That environment there was also very unique for me and very welcoming, and just the connections that, through the Liberty Program, we made with other programs within even the same Bank Street building, such as the Family Center, and the parents that brought their kids to this nursery school in there that came from these people with all these different backgrounds, you know, professors at Columbia University. And just having that opportunity to not only be a student or a participant in this Saturday weekend college or the after-school program, but we also were able to work at the Family Center, learn about childhood development, learn how to teach the way that students in the graduate school were learning, and then making connections with those parents who come from all over. They’re lawyers, they’re some scientists as well, and having those people touch your life, for me, you know, I’m talking about my experience, was completely just overwhelmingly wonderful. I mean, I have so many connections that came out of just being this kid who fell upon to this program for inner city kids at risk, and just the combination of all these things in this building on the Upper West Side.
I hope that there are other places like that. It just felt very magical looking back, just the opportunities that I had because I decided on a whim, “Yeah, let me go to this program because I would like some independence from my mother.” It just absolutely, it changed me, not only as a student, as a young teen, as a woman, as a scientist, but as a mother because all of the things that I learned, not just the way that I was interacted with by David Maureen, the Kate Sussmans, the Trevor Scotlands, but also these other parents that were not at all connected to Liberty, but were part of, you know, other programs within the Bank Street community. It’s completely changed, you know, how I teach my own children, how I interacted with students when I was in grad school, how I interact with young scientists that are coming through the CDC. It was a very special place for me, and I cannot imagine what my world would be like had I not been exposed to that.
[00:40:21] Jon M: Tara, was there anything you wanted to add?
[00:40:24] Tara C: I just wanted to add that, you know, after years of not even thinking of Bank Street per se and just being an adult living life, I happened to see Dave in my yoga class. Half-naked. And I was so excited, like, “Oh my God, it’s Dave!” And I took a picture, and I put it in my Instagram, and all of my friends from Liberty who knew who Dave was were in the comments like, “Oh my God, it’s Dave.” It was like, I felt like it was like Jim Henson or, you know, like a character who everybody knows, and like even after years of not even seeing or thinking of the person, you see them and you’re like, “Hey, it’s that guy.” So I just wanted to mention that because that’s an awesome thing that I was like, “Yeah, Dave’s like Jim Henson or something,” where like, where all of us Liberty kids, we’ll see like any of our awesome teachers and be like, “Oh my God.” So I just wanted to bring that energy into the conversation because that is, this is the pure love of our community. You know? It’s there.
[00:41:47] Jon M: Thank you, David Penberg, Madelyn Baez, and Tara Crippen. And thank you, listeners. If you found this podcast worthwhile, please share it with friends and colleagues, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, and give us a rating or a review, because this helps other people find the show. Check out our website for more episodes and videos, and to subscribe to our monthly emails.
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